Say the words “Coney Island” to New Yorkers, especially of a certain age, and you may well get a dreamy kind of pause and a vivid memory: feeling the sensation of a drop on the Cyclone roller coaster, seeing the steel top on the gigantic Parachute Jump from the distance, riding the fast Steeplechase horses, eating a corn dog for the first time. At one time, it seemed, everybody went there, if at least once.
Coney Island isn’t just a place of yesteryear, of Astroland and Luna Park. As anyone can attest who goes to the Mermaid Parade, the Fourth of July hot dog eating contest, or a Brooklyn Cyclones baseball game, sees the sideshow, or rides the bumper cars, Coney Island is alive today. It remains not only a legend but a draw for many tourists and local beach lovers. (Also check out “Coney Island’s Off-Season Vibe” on Mindfulwalker.com.)
No one would argue, however, that this is the Coney Island of its heyday in the early 20th century and before World War II. It has vacant spaces on the waterfront and parking lots where amusement rides used to be. Many New Yorkers never venture out on the subway to it today. The owners of Astroland recently took down and packed up Dante’s Inferno and other rides, with their lease expiring at the end of January. They packed up the stuff but apparently hope they’ll be back, as part of a resurrected Coney Island, according to NY1.
And that’s where the fun and the dreams are taking shape right now, albeit with some tough, hard-to-sort-out battles that are becoming their own Coney Island sideshow: What might arise near the boardwalk and sand along the Atlantic Ocean? This is the question that the Municipal Art Society of New York (MAS) has asked the public and is considering itself as part of its ImagineConey initiative. Hundreds of ideas have poured in to the MAS. If Coney Island’s future were a Nathan’s Famous hot dog, it’d come with everything.
Luna Park: Coming Around Again?
A bit of background: New York City, in the face of the Bloomberg Administration, wants to rezone and revitalize Coney Island into a year-round destination with amusement rides, indoor and outdoor entertainment, and new housing. A developer has his own ideas. Plus, the Municipal Art Society is advocating its own bigger plan and gathering the public’s creative ideas and input through ImagineConey.
To get an idea of just how much this place lives on in the hearts of many people and stokes their imaginations, check out the ImagineConey exhibit, on view through March 11 at the MAS Urban Center galleries, at 457 Madison Ave., at East 51st Street.
The Municipal Art Society received more than 350 ideas, and the exhibit spotlights these as well as the ideas of two public sessions and an intensive design workshop where experts imagined a future Coney Island. This isn’t the most visually compelling exhibit, but the sheer number and types of ideas, from wacky to inspiring – some of them shown in images or models – stir the imagination.
Here’s a sampling of the public’s ideas for structures: a surreal cityscape, an underwater theme park, a new Luna Park, a giant art installation, the world’s largest lollipop, a Bread & Puppet Theater, Moorish castles, an underwater swimming pool, and a new world’s tallest tower. One suggested rebuilding the Victorian-style buildings. Another proposed creating a new Elephant Hotel, after the old one built in the shape of an elephant and opened in the late 19th century. (The old hotel reportedly developed a reputation for prostitution and illegal activity, sparking the use of the phrase “seeing the elephant” locally.”)
The zany, on-the-edge spirit of Coney Island lives on within many who proposed rides and programs. Some want a new Tornado, after the steeply whipping roller coaster, and new Astro Tower, which allowed riders to go up, up, up, and catch a 360-degree view of the environs. Another idea: Build an Inverted Wooden Roller Coaster; Kenneth Vogel constructed a model of this stomach churner, which can be seen at the MAS exhibit. One person would like to see a transit roller coaster (sounds like the MTA’s finances to me).
The public recommendations for programs sound very much like the sometimes-anarchic amalgam of New York, with 64 proposals listed at the exhibit. They include: a yuppie zoo, an image of which showed characters behind bars sipping Starbucks-like refreshments; a vegan boardwalk café; a “parade of disasters” (cable news has shown how popular this programming can be); invention contests; a New York transit graffiti museum; ice queen contests; cutest baby contests; a “sushi skate park”; an international ethnic foods market; a zoo of cloned animals; and an Italian theme park. There were also tamer ideas such as bird and nature tours, movies on the boardwalk, jazz festivals; and hot air balloon rides.
Coney Conflicts
It wasn’t apparent from the exhibit exactly how the Municipal Art Society will make use of the ideas the public has submitted. As part of ImagineConey, the MAS is advocating for its own ideas. It convened a team of amusement, design, and real estate experts in the intensive design workshop. The team recommends that Coney Island become “the world’s greatest seaside stage” with four key elements:
- a major cable car ride, in which passengers would ride in waterproof pods above the amusements and nearby areas, which would provide not only transit but amazing views of the sea and the city;
- a retractable roof, which would preserve Coney Island as a year-round destination while protecting its outdoor character;
- “The Strip,” a hotel and entertainment district; and
- “The Electric City,” which would be a “casbah” of small buildings and structures with digital LED skins that could be programmed for “all kinds of extraordinary effects” such as being in different cities around the globe, etc.
Meanwhile, the developer, Joseph J. Sitt, isn’t having much of what the city or MAS want. His plan, which, according to The New York Times, “owes more to Disney World than to Coney Island’s tradition of inexpensive rides,” envisions time-share hotels and huge retail stores that the new zoning wouldn’t permit.
The Municipal Art Society believes the city’s plans, which include new mixed-income housing, restaurants, and parks in addition to the amusement district, are much better than other recent redevelopment schemes. However, it wants the Bloomberg Administration to be more audacious and set aside 26 acres, not just the narrow 9.4-acre district along the boardwalk south of Surf Avenue, to create enough space for outdoor amusements – especially for a signature ride that will draw visitors from far and wide. The city is considering its rezoning plan and skirmishing with the developer, while the Municipal Art Society promotes its vision.
But what will the site of freak shows, hot dogs, the Mermaid Parade, and memories that people recall for generations become – another Disney World facsimile or a place in which, as one MAS leader put it, Coney Island’s “honky-tonk soul” lives on? Stay tuned.
Note: Mindful Walker also explored Coney Island today during an off-season walk through the neighborhood. See “Coney Island’s Off-Season Vibe.”
Update: The Municipal Art Society is building on some of the ideas and principles the public proposed as the City of New York considers Coney Island’s rezoning plan.
Brooklyn Community Board 13 gave the go-ahead to the Bloomberg Administration’s rezoning plan on Mar. 11, 2009.
New York City Council approved the Coney Island redevelopment plan in July, 2009. Various groups, including Save Coney Island, are pushing for an expanded open-air amusement area and for other changes to the rezoning proposal.
21 responses so far ↓
1 Chris // Feb 27, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Ah…you have evoked some great memories for me. I remember well, the thrill of the Cyclone. Remember how it would go achingly slow up the big hill and then right at the top, it would actually stop for a second…and then varoom, down the hill when your stomach would drop?? To get my sister on once when she was little, my Dad said he would tell the operator to slow it down (and he actually did so - the operator winked and said sure thing!). And nothing tasted better than a Nathan’s dog and fries with the smell of the ocean behind us. Good stuff…
My Mom, her brothers and aunt have many, many stories of Skovals Walk and how that is where everyone went on the hot summer days in Brooklyn just after World War II.
Regarding the new proposals, I think the retractable roof is ridiculous. And the thought of it becoming a Disney facsimilie is unthinkable (I equate it to the feeling I get when I see the Hard Rock Cafe in Key West). Some of the public’s ideas are cool. I’m glad the city is so involved and wants to maintain the wonderfully goofy character - certainly would not happen if left in the hands of developers whose only interest really is personal profit (yes - I am the master of stating the obvious).
Another great article Susan - thanks!! I love this site!
2 Susan DeMark // Feb 28, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Chris,
Wonderful comment, and thank you!
I can feel the ocean breeze and taste the hot dog as you write about it. Great memory of the Cyclone! Can you tell me more about your mother’s recollection of Skovals Walk or a story your family has of it?
The Municipal Art Society put together a list of principles underlying the public’s responses to ImagineConey…what the public wants, such as “magical,” “affordable,” “fun,” “edgy.” One of them was: “Not Times Square.” (There are things I love in Times Square, but that flavor would never be right for Coney Island.)
I hope the Municipal Art Society can have some impact on what ultimately happens at Coney Island, and I plan to keep track of the proposals and update the audience.
Thanks again!
Susan
3 Chris R // Mar 1, 2009 at 11:58 am
Hi Susan,
I asked my Mom to share her memories of Skovals Walk. She said it was a series of bungalows along the boardwalk that was between Steeplechase to the north and Ocean Tide (a huge saltwater swimming pool) to the south. My Mom’s grandmother (Nana) would rent a two-bedroom bungalow (complete with kitchen and bathroom) for the summer. The women and children would stay all week, the men would come on weekends. There was a nearby bathhouse where people who did not have a bungalow rented lockers and took showers.
She remembers that there was a bar (where you could also get food like hamburgers and hot dogs) underneath the boardwalk that she thinks (not sure) was named Peggy O’Neill’s. She recalls that it was a bar but the adults drank mostly beer (lots of it). The men played handball. Everyone played ping-pong. Mom said the kids would hang around the adults who were playing ping-pong and drinking lots of beer, hoping to scrounge a quarter (and my Mom stressed that 25 cents went a long way back then in the mid to late 1940s). When some kid scrounged a quarter, the kids would run up to the boardwalk to play games (one of the favorites was skeeball).
Mom said that they would get to Coney Island by either the subway or the trolley. She said she loved to swim in the ocean - the water was lovely. I asked if was too crowded on a hot day to really enjoy swimming and she said not at all. She said she has seen old pictures of Jones Beach where people were packed like sardines - she said Coney Island swimming was not like that.
4 Chris Ross // Mar 11, 2009 at 3:21 pm
I listed the spelling incorrectly - it is Scoville’s Walk. I’ve asked (via the Geni family tree Web site) older relatives on my Mother’s side of the family to please provide more memories - that is how I learned of my incorrect spelling of a word I heard hundreds of times but never read.
5 Susan DeMark // Mar 11, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Scoville’s Walk…ah, OK! I did not know of it until you mentioned it. I’ve Googled it and found an old classified ad for a bungalow in Scoville’s Walk.
That’s a very understandable spelling mistake.
Thanks for letting me know! I’d love to hear more about Scoville’s Walk from those who used to go there.
Susan
6 Debby Cavanagh Martello // May 7, 2009 at 1:36 pm
I spent my early teen (1954/55/56 ) summers renting a locker at Ocean Tide…Bay #22……I believe Scoville’s was Bay #17? Anyway….our days were filled with swimming, dancing to the Juke Box (Bayridge lindy) in a fence-enclosed area away from the public bar and buying our lunch heros from Mary’s….delicious….mmmmmmm
7 Susan DeMark // May 7, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Debby,
Your comment draws such a wonderful picture of those days at Coney Island…swimming, heros, dancing, all great. What memories! I think that is why Coney means so much to a lot of people.
I love the lindy hop, and do a bit of swing dancing. Not sure what you mean by “Bayridge lindy.” Was this the local version of the lindy? Would love to know.
As for which Bay number Scoville’s was, I’m going to have to throw that question out to the audience. This includes Chris, whose comments are above and whose family regularly went to and loved Scoville’s. (I was a Pennsylvania teen whose first beach days were spent at the Jersey Shore.)
I looked around and found a link for an audio in which two sisters recall their days spent at the Ocean Tide bathing club (from the Coney Island History Project):
http://www.coneyislandhistory.org/voices/index.php?g=voices&s=details&object_id=272
How sweet and simple were and are those beach days! I think that’s one of the reasons why people love dances such as the lindy — brings so much of it back!
Thanks,
Susan
8 Debby Cavanagh Martello // May 8, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Hi Susan,
Thanks for responding and for the link. I listened a bit this a.m. and will finish the sisters’ interview later…they’re a bit younger than I but from my old neighborhood “Windsor Terrace.” I took the Coney Island Ave Trolley Car to the “barn” end of the line…and then had to transfer to the Neptune Ave Line.
To answer your question about the Bay Ridge Lindy, it was popular among the boys from Bay Ridge who danced at Ocean Tide. They’d swing their arm and then bring it up to the shoulder and that was basically the difference from the ordinary lindy that we knew! I can still remember some of the Bay Ridge boys…Ray Buttacavoli, Billy Smart, Phil Ditto….wonder where they are?
9 Susan DeMark // May 8, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Debby,
I have seen pictures of those trolleys in Brooklyn. It all sounds so great and fun. (I only rode trolleys in Philly.)
And thanks so much for the description of the Bay Ridge Lindy, and that special move! The next time I see one of the dance teachers at the swing dance we sometimes go to, I’m going to ask him about it. Who knew?! It’s like the neighborhood boys developed their own special way of dancing.
Like you, at various times I think of names from dances and other times of the past. In fact, I often say I’ll remember those names as well as others from my Catholic school class, etc., my whole life. Funny how the names stick!
Thanks again for sharing the memories! I’m sure others will relate to those special times.
Susan
10 Nancy (Stewart) Schlegel // Sep 27, 2009 at 1:00 pm
I now live just south of Annapolis, Maryland, but until the age of 27 I lived in NYC. Until age 12 in Bay Ridge. Attended St. Pats until 1962. I remember waiting for the bus outside Woolworth’s on 86th street to catch the bus to Coney Island. I think we took two buses and got off on the opposite side of the street from Nathan’s.
Many times we went to Ocean Tide pool. I can still smell the steam bath my mom made me go into with her. The maze of grey wooden lockers we changed in. The steam room was a ritual we did at the end of the day before we went to the enclosed dance area with the wooden floor. And yes I did the Lindy at age 5 or 6. It is one of the most vivid memories I have as a very young girl.
I also remember holding onto the very green rope with the barrels in the ocean because I could not swim. I’m amazed I survived. Thanks to all who are writing about that special time and place .
11 Susan DeMark // Sep 27, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Nancy,
Thanks for sharing such amazing and vivid memories, the sights, smells, and experiences of that time.
It’s wonderful that you were dancing the Lindy at age 5 or 6. What is better than that!
I’m intending this fall to follow up on what plans and changes are going on at Coney Island. It was not a part of my childhood, but I am so thankful for visitors to the site such as yourself who share their great and very alive memories of such a special place!
Best,
Susan
12 James Tucker // Oct 24, 2009 at 11:23 pm
I remember dancing at Ocean Tide….jukebox…6 plays for 25 cents. Irish bar on Neptune Ave. I think it was McClean’s. You had to be under 14 to buy beer in a cardboard container. What about Hinsch’s and the Snake Pit bar next door?
13 James Tucker // Oct 24, 2009 at 11:25 pm
McClean’s Bar was McCabe’s.
14 Susan DeMark // Oct 25, 2009 at 10:02 am
James,
Thanks for your great memories. Wasn’t that cool to get six plays for a quarter? Your jukebox tunes cost about the same as I remember, on the jukebox in my small town in Western Pa.
I found a reference to McCabe’s in the book Coney Island: Lost and Found. People also post memories on the bulletin board at Coneyisland.com, and I wonder if someone has written about McCabe’s.
Had not heard of the Snake Pit before!
Best,
Susan
15 Kay McKearney Bradshaw // Nov 14, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Have been searching for some who might have spent their summers at Ocean Tide where we swam but mostly danced to the juke box near the pool. MaryLou….Phil…Ray..’round 1951-56.
16 Susan DeMark // Nov 14, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Would be great to hear from some of those folks. Sounds like such wonderful times! Perhaps once some of the new plans, to resurrect more of Coney Island’s amusements and entertainment, there will be some reunions there.
Susan
17 Rich Salzman // Jan 28, 2010 at 6:56 pm
I remember McCabe’s bar on Surf and W. 34th Street. It was torn down in the late 1970s to make way for that huge apartment building with duplex apartments. McCabe’s was across the street from Mary’s hero shop and the Coney Island Y.
I grew up in Sea Gate and spent my youth in and around Coney Island. The place was magical and seedy at the same time… pure excitement! When you tell people you are from Coney Island, everyone in the world knows where you are talking about! Great times!
18 Susan DeMark // Jan 29, 2010 at 5:11 am
Hi, Rich,
“Magical and seedy at the same time” — that is such an excellent description for what Coney Island was.
Did a little more research, and I found photos of the razing of McCabe’s, in the book Coney Island: Lost and Found. I imagine the 1970s must have been quite a time of knocking buildings over in Coney Island, as it was elsewhere in cities. A place like that may be gone, but it never quite leaves our memory, almost like a person.
You can tell how much of an impact Coney Island’s “great times” have had on so many people.
Thanks for your excellent comments!
Susan
19 Rich Salzman // Jan 31, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Funny thing about McCabe’s: When I was about 13 I played bass in a local “garage band.” Our drummer’s Uncle Jack was a great guy and a frequent patron of McCabe’s. On one occasion he arranged for us to play a few songs at McCabe’s. I don’t know what the legalities were regarding minors being in a bar, but McCabe enthusiastically agreed to let us play (in the back of the place) one Saturday night, and he paid us $50 (divided by the 4 of us!!). We were terrible, but had fun and it was our first paying gig!
As for the late 1960s-early 1970s, it was a depressing time in Coney Island. Then-Mayor John Lindsay’s policies resulted in Coney becoming a dumping ground for the city’s poor. As ‘welfare’ families moved in to replace blue-collar working families, Coney’s fortunes rapidly declined. Businesses closed or were burned down for the insurance money, landlords abandoned their four-family apartments that lined the streets from W. 16th to W. 36th St., and the tenants (who were paying rent and not receiving basic services) set fire to their own apartment houses. By the late 1970s there were empty lots filled with garbage and debris where there once had been a thriving community.
Like you so eloquently put it, the Coney Island of our youth never quite leaves our memory. Like the shadow of a smile when a loved one is gone, the memories of sights and sounds (and even smells) of Coney Island linger a lifetime.
And the characters who lived among us… you can’t imagine! But that’s another story. LOL!
Regards,
Rich
20 Susan DeMark // Feb 1, 2010 at 9:04 am
Rich,
Thank you again for your comments and memories about Coney Island. Love the anecdote about the “first paying gig” at McCabe’s.
You definitely paint a very stark picture of what occurred at Coney Island in the 1960s and early 1970s. I have read about the building of huge public housing complexes and the bulldozing of other buildings at Coney Island, as well as the Rockaways. How much such changes, even some well-intentioned ones, tear the fabric of communities. I hope we’ve learned some things about affordable housing AND preserving community but I’m not sure enough.
Yes, I bet the characters in Coney were something!
Best,
Susan
21 Rich Salzman // Feb 3, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Susan,
Here is a link to a fascinating but dark perspective on Coney Island, written last February by Joshua Cohen:
http://www.tabletmag.com/arts-and-culture/books/1047/amusements/
The author writes “… no other New York neighborhood boasts Coney’s literary history.”
He continues “…its literature has always been one of writers on-leave, basking in the childhood fantastic by noon, and the libidinous by dusk. Coney’s appearance in the chapters of novels and in the stanzas of poems especially represents an intrusion of magic into worldweary realism…” a more eloquent and articulate way of presenting my feelings; Coney Island is a place which is magical but seedy at the same time.
Leave a Comment